——–Trigger warning: Clueless abortion arguments———
This is a copypaste of a discussion I’m surprised I bothered to have, in the Unofficial Church of Satan Facebook group. I don’t know what compelled me to say anything, as I know the internet is a lot of talking into a void alongside a billion other people talking into the void.
This may or may not require an update, if any other relevant responses appear. The commenter’s name has been redacted.
Original Post was a general “for or against abortion?” query.
[Commenter] 1-I agree with abortion but with some reservations. I don’t agree with abortion as a contraceptive method, as many women do. If proven that, the woman should never be allowed to have kids. Tough luck, there are lots of orphans waiting to be loved if she decides latter in life to be a mommy.
2-In case of rape, it’s for the woman to decide.
3-Malformation, personally i think everyone should choose to abort, but socially it should be up to the parents, and NEVER the woman alone. If having a normal kid by accident fucks up your life (most of the times), then having a deficient kills you for life. It’s my opinion. Malformed animals die in nature. Deal with it.
4-“Normal” accident should really be up to both in my opinion, but we all know it doesn’t work that way. What can be done when the woman wants to abort, and the man doesn’t? It’s basically women call, and they should abort if they feel they should, though some degree of conversation between the couple should exist.
[Serena Klein] My only argument here is going to be against the assertion “as many women do”. This is a sweeping statement which not only doesn’t reflect the lived experience of the people who have been involved in such a decision, but it seems to be made from a perspective which *can’t* know what ‘many women do’.
Beware narrow perspectives.
[Commenter] “Many” was not supposed to sound as “the majority”. In Portugal there are roughly 100,000 births per year, and 10,000 aborts. 10%. In data I found (just to make a point), the number of births in US in 2008 was 4.2 million, and there were 1.21 million known abortions made by choice. 25%. So yes Serena, many women do abortion for a simply lack of responsibility, almost like a “last measure contraceptive method”. When there are women that have multiple abortions in their lifetime (some times more than 10). It’s quite impossible to know the lives of everyone, but it’s quite obvious, at least, that there are many abortions made because lack of responsibility, no?
[Serena Klein] It’s not at all obvious that there are women who have had 10 or more abortions, nor that this is common enough to warrant a blanket assertion about “many women”. Also “in US in 2008 was 4.2 million, and there were 1.21 million known abortions made by choice” is being equated with the “many women” you say are choosing to use abortion as contraception. Let’s ignore the availability of actual contraception (because no person is going to choose the extreme option when a simpler one is available – would you prefer skin cancer treatment or do you like having access to sunblock lotions?) and assume…… wait a minute, did you just imply that there were nearly 3 million US abortions what were made NOT by choice? I can assure you, pressure and coercion aside, nobody makes a decision like that flippantly.
And I’d like to ask you, this responsibility you seem to think sex-having people bear, who is it owed to? If it’s owed to “unborn babies” that’s about as nebulous a concept as ghosts or astrology. You might as well tell me I owe it to the spirits of the forest to plant trees just because I enjoy trees. If it’s owed to you or humanity in general, you can feel free to fulfill that imposed obligation yourself.
I said I’d only argue the “many women” point, I didn’t mean to reveal myself as a woman with opinions in public, but oh well. It’s just hard to take people seriously before they can demonstrate a wider perspective.
[Commenter] The “abortion as a contraception” is simply a way of saying that the abortion would never have happened if people were responsible in the first place. So, you don’t think that with the information available the number of abortions by choice is proof that many people were simply irresponsible? Well I’m sorry, but the numbers indicate otherwise. You don’t think sex-having people bear any responsibility when they have sex? And where the hell did i say 3 millions US abortions that were not made by choice? And how can you even say nobody makes that decision flippantly? That’s, perhaps as wider perspective as my many. If you know anybody that works in an abortion clinic ask them how many women return there frequently. I never said people prefer the extreme option by choice, but it like they do. When you drink 2 bottles of vodka and than drive and have a accident is like you were asking for the accident, as many couples ask for accidents, don’t giving a real fuck in the occasion. I ask you then: people don’t bear any responsibility in making mistakes? That’s like saying that “oh you killed a person by accident while driving drunk. No problem since it was an accident you should bear no consequences”. Most abortion happen because people were too stupid to begin with. That’s the simple truth. This is not a country that you have trouble finding contraceptive methods. At least the world i live in, most abortions could be avoided if people were responsible.
[Serena Klein] Sex is irresponsible behavior, I get it. It’s just like driving drunk and killing someone. The driver (sex-haver) should definitely be punished.
21st Century Satanism or 14th century Catholicism? I can’t tell D=
So I figured since it’s rare for me to write about this, here ya go.